Do Harsh Pot Laws Create a Dangerous Drinking Culture? 5 Reasons to Get Stoned Instead of Drunk

Well Jerry you and I know it was our generation (I'm 64) that invented pot and it was Nixon that swept aside the recommendation to decriminalize it. Instead he opted for a "war on drugs" that has cost billions and in essence is shoveling water.

Maybe the U.S. should take a look at the Portuguese approach all drugs are legal if you get caught using heroin you go to rehab not jail...

the war on the people must stop

First let me say I support the legalization of a plant, this is America after all.

But, marijuana does have slightly addictive qualities, it is a chemical that unbalances the neurotransmitters in the brain and provides a high. When that chemical no longer is present there is a lag in the brains ability to stabilize those natural chemicals. Regular users of pot feel withdrawal symptoms such as slight anxiety, moodiness, and restless sleep for a few days after stopping regular use. The difference between pot's withdrawal symptoms and almost every other drug including nicotine is the severity and length of the symptoms. But to tell people it is not addictive and there are no withdrawal symptoms is just not true.

All that aside, I am an American and supposedly free, so I'll be back in 5 with the munchies and a theory about how we are really just an electron in some giants atom.

Wizeguy,

Well Jerry you and I know it was our generation (I'm 64) that invented pot and it was Nixon that swept aside the recommendation to decriminalize it.

Whoa there buddy. Your generation didn't even come close to inventing don't be so arrogant. It has existed for centuries and was outlawed in response to alcohol lobby's after prohibition, are you 115 years old? Heck your generation barely even make it better sitting around smoking what would considered dirt to most users now days. The introduction of genetics and selective breeding has drastically transformed shwag to stuff that literally glows in the dark...genetics

Jerry - I agree, pot is the least harmful of all "recreational" drugs; I am 51 and was involved in a lot of drug use from the age of 12-40, I saw all kinds of crazy @!$%# caused by coke, meth, alcohol, acid, PCP etc. However I NEVER saw a pot smoker cause/start a fight, commit armed robbery, become psychotic or any other crazy @!$%# as long they were just smoking pot.

Pot smokers are dangerous only to boxes of Captain Crunch w/ Crunch Berries, Twinkies, Double Stuff Oreos and a Gallon of milk, etc. I personally murdered a ofnumber boxes of the afore mentioned Captian Crunch as a stoned teen.

A stoner only wants to chill out, watch Bugs Bunny or the Marx Brothers or some other silly @!$%#, laugh and indulge the munchies.

Also Pot is NOT the gateway drug, ALCOHOL is the gateway drug; 99.99% of people who use street drugs started on ALCOHOL.

I base my comment on real world personal experience, I spent years in prison for crimes I commited to support a coke/heroin habit, I knew guys who commited murder in alcoholic blackouts or while psychotic on meth, never meet a violent pot smoker.

Whoa there buddy. Your generation didn't even come close to inventing don't be so arrogant

HA you don't recognize sarcasm when you see it....we also invented bell bottoms, sandels and granny glasses....we went from smoking Mexican to Colombian..it now has evolved into a horticultural monster...$3000 a pound??? man talk about inflation...

And you know this how?

The difference between pot's withdrawal symptoms and almost every other drug including nicotine is the severity and length of the symptoms.

Experience, duh...

I was a regular pot smoker and hung out with regular pot smokers for years. I never personally experienced, and I do not know of anyone that ever experienced any of the symptoms you have described.

But to tell people it is not addictive and there are no withdrawal symptoms is just not true.

Seriously, because you buddy never told you he had a hard time falling asleep for a few days discredits actual research. Drugs cause chemical imbalances, i.e. highs, and your body adjusts. When you quit your body adjusts back, like you posted caffeine has the same if not MORE severe results.

Marijuana remains criminal for political reasons.

During Prohibition marijuana was still legal. When prohibition ended a lot of drinkers remained on pot. The Alcohol lobby got pot criminalized. They used the same lies and propaganda which is being used today to sell the "right wing agenda".

Legalizing pot would a billion dollar industry that would greatly benefit this nation at a time when new industries are needed. Besides the "high" there is HEMP.

I also believe that the Drug companies help keep it legal. Further , for law enforcement, the "war on drugs" is a jobs program.

Wize - It's decriminalized in Portugal, not legal. If people think that's such a fine idea, why not go there. The majority of Americans are satisfied with the law as it is here. People's' exhibit A is the CA legalization proposition, which went down to defeat.

History is doomed to repeat itself, especially since we have forgotten how prohibition was one of the worst times in American history for crime, because when someone wants something, they'll get it regardless of its legality. This in essence created the gangsters and bootleggers of the 30's, made them rich, and made a lot of people lose respect for our government and the police officers that took bribes regularly. Lo and behold an amendment was added to repeal prohibition.

Marijuana is indeed safer than any other 'drug', I fail to see why its not legal right now, making (as a major cash crop) billions to help fend off the looming deficit. Priorities, not moralities, people!

Something tells me that it is still looked down upon because it was mostly a product spread by the counter-culture boom of the 60's, just like the fight for minority rights and a more Liberal agenda for America.

slight anxiety, moodiness, and restless sleep

I used to suffer those terrible symptoms BEFORE I ever smoked weed. I finally found a remedy, called pot.. eliminated test anxiety too.. so I could improve from B to A's

Davy.. CA DECRIMINALIZED WEED. it is now just an infraction.. only a ticket, unless you have a Med card.... then you are on your merry way.. just a matter of time.. it will be legal..

It' wasnt' just one group that lobbied for mJ to be banned, the petro-chemical companys also did.. as hemp products/ rope/cloth/etc are a fraction the cost of poly-rope../ polyester rayon etc

hello

We the corporations?

sorry for your problems with the withdraw symtoms you had, an falling asleep. I speak for myself not others. I have never had a problem falling asleep like you say. Never felt anxiety either. From time to time I have stopped smoking marijuana (notice I did not use the word USE) so that when I started again It would take less to get high.

I cannot for the life of me see why someone that smokes marijuana or grows it or has it. should get a sentence of two years to life in any state. when we read of someone raping or killing someone and going to jail for two to ten years and gets out early for good behavior. but someone that smokes marijuana is a real danger to society and has to be in for the full term.(political B.S.)

Here is how far out some people are... I once worked with a guy the was at least twenty years older than I am . He stated that he would rather work along side of a person the got drunk the night before than someone that smoked a few joints.... I could not believe his thought process, because if you worked with a guy that was drunk the night before you have to more or less babysit him. Because the chances are that he is hung over and is(,not to mention that he still wreaks of Alcohol) a danger to himself and to others. Because he is hung over after killing 10's of thousands of brain cells the night before. Not so with marijuana, your not hung over and the affects are not there the next day. And I would rather work with the smoker. Sure the THC is still in your blood stream and is also stored in your fatty cells for a few weeks but the high is long gone. Laws need to be changed or our law makers ( But we all know that they need to be changed..(The law makers that is).

I lost a few friends to drinking.. I have yet to loose a friend from smoking Marijuana

Davy-755715

Wize - It's decriminalized in Portugal, not legal. If people think that's such a fine idea, why not go there. The majority of Americans are satisfied with the law as it is here.

"It's decriminalized in Portugal, not legal." -- Fine then, but that's pretty nit-picky. Couldn't you comprehend his meaning? i.e "Let's decriminalize marijuana."

"The majority of Americans are satisfied with the law as it is here." -- FALSE, since you are being nit-picky you should 'sweep your own house.'

"50% of Americans now say the use of marijuana should be made legal, ... Forty-six percent say marijuana use should remain illegal."

Source: http://www.gallup.com/poll/150149/record-high-americans-favor-legalizing-marijuana.aspx (Yeah, I know, facts have a left-wing bias …)

"If people think that's such a fine idea, why not go there." -- That is a profoundly ANTI-American point of view, i.e. "Conservative" talking point. Patriots seek to continuously improve the USA. Only Conservatives seek to obstruct progress in the USA … i.e. "conserve" unjust laws. (Conservatives also obstruct rationale discourse.)

Jerry,

Wtc is correct. There are mild withdrawal symptoms, perhaps half as intense as caffeine withdrawal.

Davy-

The majority of Americans are satisfied with the law as it is here.

WRONG -

50% of Americans favor legalization of marijuana - Gallup

"When Gallup first asked about legalizing marijuana, in 1969, 12% of Americans favored it, while 84% were opposed. Support remained in the mid-20s in Gallup measures from the late 1970s to the mid-1990s, but has crept up since, passing 30% in 2000 and 40% in 2009 before reaching the 50% level in this year's Oct. 6-9 annual Crime survey."

People's' exhibit A is the CA legalization proposition, which went down to defeat.

That's a deceptive, spun statement. Sure there were those against it based on straight forward disapproval of marijuana. But the thing that doomed the initiative were the growers, who feared huge price drops, (correctly) and medical marijuana dispensary owners who feared that the need for their business would disappear (also correct). In addition the proposition was flawed in that it gave too much control to local governments that would have created a patchwork of legal/non-legal jurisdictions e.g. total legal chaos.

Even though Prop 19 lost, it garnered more YES votes than any other legalization effort in history. There are at least three initiatives hoping to get on the ballot in 2012 in California. Colorado, and Washington state are doing the same thing.

Via the Gallup poll you can see the trend is definitely towards a stronger, and stronger majority for legalization and that will definitely be a good thing

Legalize it and tax it - we need the money. Besides, I've watched the "war on drugs' for 40 years now; it's been like watching the Marx Bros. trying to sweep the beach clean of sand. Doesn't seem to be working out too well. Unless, of course, you're a drug-running criminal or a corporation that runs a privatized prison.

That is a profoundly ANTI-American point of view, i.e. "Conservative" talking point. Patriots seek to continuously improve the USA. Only Conservatives seek to obstruct progress in the USA … i.e. "conserve" unjust laws. (Conservatives also obstruct rationale discourse.)

OK first of all, when you start calling all who agree with you "patriots" and and all who disagree "anti-American," do you really think you will persuade the people you just called "anti-American" to see things your way?

And anyway, Prohibition was brought to us when social conservatives teamed up with political progressives. Today, the social conservatives have teamed up with the Republicans. But true political conservatives should want to return to a time when Marijuana was legal and people were free to put whatever they wanted into their bodies.

For the last 40 years or so, we have had two political parties who are anti-MJ for their own reasons. Only the Libertarians really want to get rid of the war on drugs.

Well, let's see here.

1 - I can have a glass of wine with my wife and inlaws..

2 - I can have a beer with my Boss

3 - I can celebrate with champagne at weddings, Bar Mitzvahs and anniversaries with all of my employees and their families.

4 - I can stop by the local restaurant and have a drink with an associate.

5 - I will still have a job the morning after celebrating with alcohol.

Now, try any of those situations with marijuana. Not exactly a recommended idea, now, is it?

MartyMoose

OK first of all, when you start calling all who agree with you "patriots" and and all who disagree "anti-American," do you really think you will persuade the people you just called "anti-American" to see things your way?

"...do you really think you will persuade…" No, and I guess by that point I should have been putting a /sarc tag after every other word … (I would have hoped that it would have been obvious to you that the word "patriot" was thrown in there just to be annoying … The person wrote four sentences and each was offensive in multiple ways … )

Did I ever really think I could persuade a nit-picky obstructionist spreading falsehoods and anti-American thoughts? Or did I just need to vent my rage that such creatures even exist? ;->

1 - I can have a glass of wine with my wife and inlaws..

I smoke out with with inlaws regularly

2 - I can have a beer with my Boss

I smoke out with my boss (and my boss' boss) regularly

I can celebrate with champagne at weddings, Bar Mitzvahs and anniversaries with all of my employees and their families.

I smokd out both my brother in law and his wife at their wedding....and I certainly would fire one up for a bar mitzvah celebration.

4 - I can stop by the local restaurant and have a drink with an associate.

I can stop by my local pot dispensary and have a drink and toke on a hookah.

5 - I will still have a job the morning after celebrating with alcohol.

Please see #2....and I smoke at work.

I haven't touched alcohol since I was in my early twenties, I never liked it or the way it made/makes me feel (being drunk or buzzed). I made the clear & conscious choice to not use alcohol, and to instead use marijuana. I would see myself and friends get drunk, vomit, get in fights, act stupid infront of Police & get in trouble in all kinds of ways - none of which are typical of the average stoned person. Alcohol is poison, people die from alcohol and nothing else much less the stupid lethal behavior often associated with alcohol. I will never in my life again drink another beer - not even an organic one - it's not worth the cost in body & mind.

Thank god I live in Ca. I remember when pot was obtained from hoodlums on street corners in the areas of town you never go except to buy pot (or other drugs if that's your thing). Obtaining the MJ used to be as dangerous as drinking our using hard street drugs in of themselves, one would take their life in their hand just looking for pot, unless you were a dealer - but that just put you in more trouble!?! Then came Medical Marijuana :) Just in time to prevent me from obtaining a life long criminal record related to marijuana crimes, simply because I chose not to use Alcohol for recreational purposes because I had seen how easily it ruined lives. The only thing dangerous about marijuana is the criminal world forced upon/around it by the Fed/Gov. They (even Obama) do their best to make life long criminals out of people who without such laws would simply be average citizens with no criminal record - and healthy livers....

In the city I live in there are ZERO MJ clinics. One tried to establish itself a couple years ago, and the entire town went into an uproar!?! Police hated the idea, citizens were upset at possible crime traffic associated with it (even though it was very small and professional). There must be 20 bars in this city, yet that was the only MJ clinic. There was so much hate towards the Marijuana place and the plant itself! The clinic was forced out of town :( Yet, in all the local newspapers, they highlight bars and specific drinks by specific bar tenders!?! Alcohol is almost worshiped like a god, yet Marijuana is demonized like the devil himself :( Ass backwards in my mind.

Alcohol sucks, it is deadly by its very nature - & If everyone smoked pot, FauxNews would have a lot less effect on people, there simply wouldn't be as many narrow minded people :)

Please see #2....and I smoke at work.

Well, I can certainly see which one of us is in the higher tax bracket...and why we have an "ignore this author" option.

Have a great day, Angry.

a "higher" tax bracket LOLOL!

It will be legalized within the next ten years...well, I have high hopes anyway.

I think everybody misses the point. What really drives this dualist point of view, is the same reason a magnet has two poles, there is a left and a right, a up and a down. The universal law is that there is opposition in all things. Now, if there isn't opposition in all things, the world does not go round and round. Can you image NASCAR, if everybody smoked pot? The "Government" doesn't want you smoking pot, pot smokers don't "believe" in being controlled. Alcohol is a controllable, taxable, treatable, business model. Budweiser is no longer an American Beer, it is a multinational. Anything big, is a multinational, or everybody eating (drinking) out of the same hand/bottle. Suckling is an instinct, and replacing the need (a succulent tit) with a "manly" bottle, makes you dependent on the "new Mommy." When, pot becomes a "business model" that could be controlled by a multinational, then and only then, will pot be the thing. Now, "government" knows that it is "best" if we have "good" productive people "enabling" users. Mothers learn to "turn their back" when sonny-boy is watching NASCAR, football (anything manly) and having his milk/suds because she feels guilty that he is no longer suckling her and isn't needed, but replaced by a stupid brown bottle. Pot smokers, are out, mommy can't imagine smoke coming out of her boob, so you are rejected (no longer fit the family business model) so you form a cartel (boy's club [street gang, mafia]) to replace mommy and then you have a new familia or illegal business model.

higher tax bracket...you are joking right???? Here are the initials at the end of my name....

BS (Bio), M.PH. R.LATg, DVM, DACLAM, DACVIM, and soon to be a PHD in animal behavior....

You can go do something with your tax bracket nonsense.

When you get cancer, don't come to my facility.

Legalize it and tax it - we need the money.

How unfair, why don't we just tax water for our extra needs? Everyone needs water, we would make much more in taxes that way. Why pick on a people who contribute very little to our problems & money issues? Tax things that are harmful to ourselves like tobacco and alcohol - both of which in their natural state are very toxic to the human body and both create serious problems/health concerns for non-users even.

That is just mean to try to put your/our countries burdens on Pot smokers. Just because they've/we've been alienated to the tenth degree up to now for the most part does not mean we should be continued to be picked on to meet the needs of the general population - that is very unAmercian! If anything, give tax credits to people who are willing to be tested once a month to be free of tobacco and alcohol. Reward people for not taking part in harmful behavior - don't tax people for choosing far less harmful recreational tools than other people who do choose very harmful (to themselves AND others in both cost & bodily harm) substances. A drink at at bar should be cost-prohibitive if allowed at all! I don't see corner establishments where one can go commit suicide (like on "Futurama" with the corner suicide booths) - yet that is was people are doing when they spend time in a bar consuming alcohol - just very very slowly, with as great a cost to society as possible compared to simply putting a gun to your head in the privacy of your own home.

We shouldn't just tax someone for the hell of it, it should be justified. To single out Pot for taxes when not even ACTUALLY TOXIC widely used substances are not subject to such taxes is morally corrupt in nature, period. We should be giving tax credits to people who choose pot over alcohol & tobacco, not punishing or disproportionately taxing MJ consumers simply because they are an easy target. Taxing MJ users is a lill' too tax happy drunk in my book.

Now James, I understand your position, but I can't for the life of me see how it would ever be legalized without some such incentive (and hook for politicians to hang their hats on). Without it, you'll not see it legalized in our lifetimes. Besides, 30 years ago I could get you a pound of some very serious bud for about 600. The price (from what I hear) has increased about 600 - 1,000% in that time. The drug cartels are ramping up the costs much higher and quicker than Uncle Sam would.

tobiii - Some very successful people are pot consumers, including the founder of Apple Steve Jobs. (and when was the last time you had your IQ tested? Also, when was the last time you saw results of IQ test of Pot Smokers? Just questions, it seems to me you would have to have personal first hand experience with many pot heads to come to such a specific opinion on the subject)

http://www.theagitator.com/2008/11/07/successful-pot-smokers-lets-make-a-list/

Barack Obama, president-elect. Bill Clinton, 42nd president of the U.S. John Kerry, U.S. Senator and 2004 Democratic nominee for president. John Edwards, multi-millionaire, former U.S. Senator, and 2004 Democratic nominee for vice president. Sarah Palin, governor of Alaska, 2008 Republican nominee for vice president. British Home Secretary Jacqui Smith, Transport Secretary Ruth Kelly, and and Chancellor Alistair Darling. Josh Howard, NBA all-star. New York Governor David Paterson. Former Vice President, Nobel Peace Prize winner, and Oscar winner Al Gore. Former Sen. Bill Bradley, who smoked while playing professional basketball. Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich, and former New York Governor George Pataki. Billionaire and New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg.

That's the result of a five-minute Google search.

http://coedmagazine.com/2009/02/06/the-10-most-successful-potheads-on-the-planet-cool-enough-to-admit-it/

Sir Richard Branson, Rick Steves, Aaron Sorkin, Michael Phelps, Barack Obama, Michael Bloomberg, Ted Turner, Montel Williams, Stephen King, Arnold Schwarzenegger.

And that's just for starters...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5xsihdWNT8

The drug cartels are ramping up the costs much higher and quicker than Uncle Sam would.

The sad truth is that MJ cost have only gone up since it's legalization, and would only go up more with more taxes. The Gov would then become the owners of the drug cartels, there would still be the incentive for home invasions of MJ growers, because of the over-inflated price of MJ. It needs to be so cheap that nobody would think it worth the effort to steal it given the potential cost in time behind bars. MJ is just a plant, and amazing plant but none the less still just a plant - it's the price of the plant which has people killing each other over it. If pot were near free, people wouldn't feel the need to bust someones door down with a shotgun in hand ready to tie up anyone inside, and to kill anyone who resist, possibly killing a house pet/dog or two in the process, just so they could have some green to sell on the street to make some greenbacks.

The sad truth is that MJ cost have only gone up since it's legalization, and would only go up more with more taxes.

Well, that certainly isn't the case in New York - or the vast majority of the nation - where it still isn't legal. Prices have gone through the roof all over, not just in CA. The cartels are the ones making all the money supplying and distributing to the rest of the country. Their operations have had to grow and become increasingly sophisticated to continue to function. These are well-armed militias, not small groups of neighborhood kids in TJ. It takes a lot of money to operate on such scales. The price of weed was rising exponentially across the US long before CA legalized the use of medical MJ. Besides, once it is legalized and taxed, you can grow for your own consumption tax-free if you've a mind to, so what's the objection? As for being incredibly cheap - I think it's a nice dream. If it becomes legal (something which might stand a chance if it was offered to the public as being something that the government could tax), how long would it be before people all over began growing for themselves? Not long. That's when you'd see the prices plummeting - when MJ became as ubiquitous as... lawn grass!

Thanks for the exchange, james - good comments!

And it's the cartels who would (and have) move(d) into the legal market, because they have dominated the market for so long, that competition couldn't compete due to the learning curve and position of power the cartels have as it is. This has already happened in Ca and other states, many involved in the "Legal" markets are the same people who were running the illegal markets. Even with legalization and taxation, the only way to remove the criminal element from MJ is to bring down the cost considerably. That is the only way gangs would not have an interest in the product. Legal or not, such organizations will not simply give up their monopolies on MJ - and they will not fully change their biz practices of murder and other crime to maintain their position of power - legal or not - that is the biz model cartels use, regardless if one of their many products is legal or not.

Again, the only way to remove crime from MJ is to remove the monetary incentive, and the only real reason to make MJ very expensive would be to mitigate the harmful effects on society of which for MJ there are none to very little - it's not even compareable to alcohol or cigarettes in terms of lives lost & ruined. There is no reason to discourage people from using MJ to such a degree that it should be made cost-ineffective to use.

Higher tax bracket?? well there is alcohol tax, and not pot tax, but other than that, smoking at work,, tobacco or weed would have nothing to do with tax brackets... as neither is exclusive to income..

When you get cancer, don't come to my facility.

you're joking right?? lol.. all them fancy letters tell me I should ask if I can bring my dog to you if he gets cancer not me.. :-) I am not in a higher tax bracket, I belong to a sobering tax bracket.. sure feels that way when looking at my check..

I work at a vivarium for a HUMAN cancer facility...you know LAB ANIMALS!!!

DACLAM

Diplomate, American College of Laboratory Animal Medicine

R.LATg

Registered Laboratory Animal Technologist

Something that is worth reading and a good article. If anyone is interested

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/282786/20120117/ron-paul-end-marijuana-prohibition-5-myths.htm

it is related.

Consistent with other researchers' findings, heavy marijuana users were found to differ significantly in living arrangements, job stability, and income.

Do the research.

Findings from these analyses suggest that marijuana use negatively affects youths' performance on standardized tests by lowering math scores by as much as 15 percent. According to research conducted previously, this reduction in math test scores could translate into a reduction in future wages by as much as 2 percent for those not going on to college.

Continuing...

In a second NBER study, data from the fourth follow-up wave of the same NELS is used to explore the causal relationship between marijuana use during tenth and twelfth grade and the number of years of schooling completed in 2000, when most of the respondents were 26 years old. The study uses two alternative methods to deal with the probable association between marijuana use and unobserved factors influencing educational attainment; the results from both models suggest that marijuana use in the tenth grade does indeed decrease educational attainment. The author notes that the negative impact of marijuana use in the tenth grade on educational attainment is similar in magnitude to the effect of living in a single parent family or living in a family with an income in the lowest quartile

Marijuana Use and Policy

Now, let's have some fun here -

That's the result of a five-minute Google search

John Edwards - Edwards now faces six felony charges and the possibility of 30 years in prison an a $1.5M fine.

Josh Howard - recently fined $25,000 by the NBA (Jan 2, 2012)

Michael Phelps - suspended from competition, loss of major sponsors to the tune of MILLIONS of dollars.

That's from just a 5 minute search as well.

Gotta love Newt Gingrichs' position(s) on Marijuana - very Republican:

http://norml.org/library/medical-marijuana-reports/item/newt-gingrich-s-letter-supporting-medical-marijuana

The following letter by Rep. Newt Gingrich, former Speaker of the House, in support of medical access to marijuana originally appeared in the March 19, 1982 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA).

To the Editor,

The American Medical Association's Council on Scientific Affairs should be commended for its report, "Marijuana: Its Health Hazards and Therapeutic Potential" (1981;246:1823). Not only does the report outline evidence of marijuana's potential harms, but it distinguishes this concern from the legitimate issue of marijuana's important medical benefits. All too often the hysteria that attends public debate over marijuana's social abuse compromises a clear appreciation for this critical distinction.

Since 1978, 32 states have abandoned the federal prohibition to recognize legislatively marijuana's important medical properties. Federal law, however, continues to define marijuana as a drug "with no accepted medical use," and federal agencies continue to prohibit physician-patient access to marijuana. This outdated federal prohibition is corrupting the intent of the state laws and depriving thousands of glaucoma and cancer patients of the medical care promised them by their state legislatures.

On September 16, 1981, Representatives Stewart McKinney and I introduced legislation designed to end bureaucratic interference in the use of marijuana as a medicant.

We believe licensed physicians are competent to employ marijuana, and patients have a right to obtain marijuana legally, under medical supervision, from a regulated source. The medical prohibition does not prevent seriously ill patients from employing marijuana; it simply deprives them of medical supervision and denies them access to a regulated medical substance. Physicians are often forced to choose between their ethical responsibilities to the patient and their legal liabilities to federal bureaucrats.

Representative McKinney and I hope the Council will take a close and careful look at this issue. Federal policies do not reflect a factual or balanced assessment of marijuana's use as a medicant. The Council, by thoroughly investigating the available materials, might well discover that its own assessment of marijuana's therapeutic value has, in the past, been more than slightly shaded by federal policies that are less than neutral.

Newt Gingrich
House of Representatives
Washington, DC

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/about-that-gingrich-marijuana-quote/

"See, when I smoked pot it was illegal, but not immoral," Gingrich reportedly told Wall Street Journal reporter Hilary Stout in 1996. "Now, it is illegal AND immoral. The law didn't change, only the morality… That's why you get to go to jail and I don't."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/13/gary-johnson-newt-gingrich-marijuana-hyprocrisy_n_1146739.html

Newt Gingrich A Hypocrite For Supporting Death Penalty For Marijuana Smugglers,...

In 1996 the former House Speaker sponsored the Drug Importer Death Penalty Act, under which importing more than two ounces of certain illegal substances -- including marijuana -- can be punishable by life imprisonment or the death penalty.

Marijuana prices have been going up?

[takes a deep drag]

That's terrible!

[exahles]

In California medicinal quality outdoor goes for $50 an oz right now. Everybody and their mother grew this year.

Literally.

My normal pot connection's mother grew five plants. Good stuff, too.

I love telling people that...

tobiii - did you read your link? This is said in it:

Marijuana generally is believed to influence educational attainment through its impact on cognitive functioning. Evidence from the medical literature clearly demonstrates that persistent and/or heavy marijuana use diminishes an individual's cognitive functions, influencing attention, concentration, and short-term memory during periods of intoxication.

Who is saying Marijuana enhances memory or cognitive functions? The question is whether to use Alcohol or Marijuana. Everything you say that is bad about marijuana is nowhere comparable to the harmful effects of Alcohol on society- that is clearly the case is it not? Smoking pot makes you high when you are smoking, wow what a revelation!?! I'll take a high off their ass stoner over a drunk off their ass drunk any day... Of course I'd rather have a fully sober person if I had to fully rely on them somehow - but if the choice is between a tobacco smoker, a alcohol consumer or a stoner - I would take the stoner every time!

I also found no attemtp in any of the studies you give to differentiate between pot users, pot & tobacco users, pot & tobbacco & alcohol users, just tobacco users, just alcohol users, or just other street drug users - or students who use a combination of street drugs with pot. Not one attempt to make sure that the "Pot smokers" they were evaluation were not also users of alcohol or other harsh drugs... Very poorly done study!

Marijuana Use and Policy

Now, let's have some fun here -

That's the result of a five-minute Google search

John Edwards - Edwards now faces six felony charges and the possibility of 30 years in prison an a $1.5M fine.

Josh Howard - recently fined $25,000 by the NBA (Jan 2, 2012)

Michael Phelps - suspended from competition, loss of major sponsors to the tune of MILLIONS of dollars.

That's from just a 5 minute search as well.

• !

#1.35 - Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:48 PM PST

Are you really suggesting this was a result of pot smoking? Really??? Phelps is the only one at all related to pot, and that was societies 'stupid reaction to it, not from effects on him from the use - in fact, use of MJ expanded his lungs! That is very helpful when being under water for long periods of time, and for bring in a lot of oxygen when you do breath.

Smoking pot makes you high when you are smoking,

you're right!

I'll take a high off their ass stoner over a drunk off their ass drunk any day

Does drinking one glass of wine make you drunk?

You're smoking marijuana to get high - EVERY time. You don't drink with the explicit intent of getting drunk EVERY time, now, do you?

Might be hard to grasp that concept, but it's right there in front of you.

Does drinking one glass of wine make you drunk?

In my mind, yes it does.

You're smoking marijuana to get high - EVERY time. You don't drink with the explicit intent of getting drunk EVERY time, now, do you?

I would think people drink to loosen up and relax - just like with MJ users. I've been in many circumstances where a friend or acquaintance would choose a glass of wine (or two) to unwind and relax - with me at that time instead choosing to smoke "a" bowl - the only real difference is one has a LD50 and the other does not (other than what was arbitrarily given to it).

I personally am not a heavy smoker as in a full joint or many bowls at a time. I take a puff, and that's it for at least a couple hours - it just helps me relax. If I'm at work, I just don't have the time to smoke - too much to do. Now, if I've just gotten a new vid game and have a night to myself, or am out on the town partying, or it's time for "Meet the Press" and "the McLaughlin Group" on Sunday(s) - then yeah I smoke all that is in front of me! From what I know though, not all pot users smoke to get high every time! One small hit is very often enough to take a slight edge off of a situation, allowing one to be more comfortable & relaxed - just like a glass of wine, only non-lethal as alcohol is (including wine).

I've also suffered from chronic headaches since I was a lill kid - much more so than the average child - I find that taking a small puff right at the very onset of a headache will magically make it disappear - though If I already have a full blown headache and smoke, the headache only gets far worse than it would have otherwise... Alcohol has no redeeming medical qualities other than it kills life - sometimes harmful life/bugs/bacteria/etc... But nothing more... Also, in the few times that I get sick, If I happen to have any nausea - smoking a bowl takes care of it almost instantly every time!

Same with stressful events too, during which a small bowl can be as effective as a pharmaceutical relaxant...

james ca-

The only one running that I know of who would stop the war on drugs is Ron Paul. I hear he has the California republicaan primary all sewn up too.

tobii,

"You're smoking marijuana to get high - EVERY time. You don't drink with the explicit intent of getting drunk EVERY time, now, do you?"

This argument is erroneous.

There is a proven impairment with the use of very minor amounts of alcohol. As was posted elsewhere, while there appears to be a detrimental effect on performance during driving, this effect is dose dependant. So that you can take a couple of hits and still be capable of performing complex tasks. Just like having a glass of wine and still being under the legal limit.

So, getting high isn't an on and off condition any more that drinking is. There is a spectrum of effect from a mild buzz to laying down and going to sleep.

One question, what is Ron Paul NOT for? :p

Paul is of the stuff dreams are made of for sure, he sounds good and all - as if we would have a perfect utopia under his (non)rule, but in the real world Pauls' philosophy would be a nightmare :(

tobill-

You can scale your smoking session to whatever you desire. Take one hit, get a little high, take two more, get higher, and so on.

This idea you've been flogging on every pot thread the vine is irrelevant - as in "so what"?

Unless eating it, you also feel the high from smoking pretty much instantly. This allows one to better regulate the high. With alcohol, one can have had enough to almost kill oneself before the effects of the first oz starts kicking in - you can't just drink a glass of wine, judge your high & decide if another glass will bring you to where you want to be, the effects take time to kick in, time which can easily allow for overuse/abuse.

I get a violent headache and stomach pains, when I don't have my coffee in the morning, its basically the same thing. I also get that feeling of anxiety when I don't get my coffee. I felt the same thing when I drank alcohol for a long time. I get it when deprived of chocolate for too long. It must mean I am addicted to everything.

What Jerry's generation and I suspect mine and the one before invented was the widespread use of cannabis as a social drug. The NA's used it for thousands of years. Most Native Americans of my acquaintance can use pot and are okay, but a couple of drinks and they go off, I had that happen to me. I can't drink.

Pot has a reputation as a gateway drug, I think that's crap. They say that most drug addicts have used pot, of that, there is no doubt, but the flip side is that not everyone who uses Pot becomes an addict. Addicts to harder drugs use pot when they can't get what their drug of preference. Legalizing pot for sale and as a cash crop by farmers-not the pharmacy companies would give a boost to the economy and eliminate a lot of the people now in prison for the minor crimes of growing and selling and using pot.

This leads us to Hemp production which is something we really should consider, Hemp is a sustainable crop with many uses, the fiber can be made into paper, thread that can be woven into durable cloth and it can be used for building products. Hemp oil is healthy to use in cooking and used in fine cosmetics and lotions. It is something that will grow almost anywhere, and would cut down on the need for wood. I also believe it can be used in the production of bio-fuels. It is safe for the environment and sustainable. There are lots of reasons to legalize it and only one to keep it illegal, and that's political posturing, and I wonder how many of those politicians that vote against it, use it in private.

it just helps me relax...take a slight edge off...

Textbook definition of addiction.

If you need "something" to "help you relax" or "take the edge off" - that's a sign of dependency.

So, with no dialogue from me, you've admitted your addiction and dependency on marijuana, an illegal substance.

Easy enough. Have a nice day.

Just shut up and pass it already! .............. The law too, Humphrey!

We gonna lay around the shanty moma an put a good buzz on.......

it just helps me relax...take a slight edge off...

it says HELPS... classic sign of use, now if the comment was NEED it to relax.. that fits addiction

The bitter taste of wine, clearly is not for pleasure, and so wine is only to feed your alcoholism, you've admitted YOUR ADDICTION

easy enough, I smoke weed, just for the immediate medical benefits,

textbook definition of controlled use..

Hey, know what? When it's all said and done, in spite of all the wishin', hopin', excuses and rationalizations, pot is still illegal enough to get you a nice fine, and foul up a lot of jobs or chances of getting same. Like it or not, that's simply the way it is; a lot of people want to keep it that way, and users would do well to realize and remember that before they do it. End of story.

Davy,

"When it's all said and done, in spite of all the wishin', hopin', excuses and rationalizations, pot is still illegal enough to get you a nice fine..."

Not in California.

You mean with the assistance of shyster "doctors"? It's caught up to CO, CA may well be next. That's the only way to skirt the law, and it's coming into the crosshairs.

Hasn't happend yet. :)

Probably won't either. There's a lot of talk about allowing large scale production but disallowing small individual growers. But there's no sereious risk that pot will be criminalized.

So, not really skirting the law, huh. The law allows it.

It's funny when someone doesn't like it.

In California medicinal quality outdoor goes for $50 an oz right now. Everybody and their mother grew this year.

Literally.

My normal pot connection's mother grew five plants. Good stuff, too.

I love telling people that...

Ah, you Californians know how to live! $50 a Z for top-grade? Wow, that's mid 1970's pricing for New York. Well, keep fighting the good fight! :o)

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/30/national/30patrol.html

Published: August 30, 2005

OAKLAND, Calif., Aug. 29 - In a turnaround, one of the state's biggest law enforcement agencies says it is taking a hands-off approach to the possession and use of marijuana for medical purposes.

The new policy, by the California Highway Patrol, states that an "individual is to be released and the marijuana is not to be seized" if the person qualifies under state law to possess marijuana for medicinal purposes. It also says that officers "shall not conduct traffic enforcement stops for the primary purpose of drug interdiction" involving the authorized use of medical marijuana.

Only where state authorities are Medical MJ patients in real danger. If the Feds wanted to take Ca, they would have to use all their own men for the most part, as in pulling in National Guard and Police from other states, or state authorities willing to violate their oaths of office of State. State employees are required by law to follow state law, which means a Ca Highway arresting a medical marijuana patient based on Federal law would be violating state law. As long as we keep our state Gov officials in check - we will only move forward, no matter what the Fed wants.

Correction: Only where State authorities are violating their Oath of office are Medical MJ patients in real danger.

Despite the eventual legalization of Marijuana, recreational use of homegrown marijuana still may very well find its demise thanks to corporate greed - and for once FauxNews is right in their disdain for someone, George Soros: http://coto2.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/prop-19-monsanto-and-gmo-terminator-cannabis/

It's a bit of a long read, but it outlines a very likely demise of recreational marijuana use - a suicide of sorts, having been masterminded by some of the very top people involved in the long-run medical marijuana movement - a movement that likes to proclaim itself as being of the people by the people for the people. Sadly, this was almost never the case - if ever. That is why street prices were adopted by clinics, rather than providing product for far cheaper than one can get it on the street. I know of no other like industry legal or not where it is the same price in a legitimate store as it is on the street. With most drugs, substances, the price paid officially is cheaper than the price street sells know they can squeeze from their buyers - that was a big cue for me that something was wrong.

Here's an excerpt"

[Chairman of GW Pharma Dr. Geoffrey Guy] "GW's miracle pot may soon be among the first cannabis plants ever patented. Although some industrial hemp genetics have been copyrighted as intellectual property, Guy is seeking to register marijuana varietals distinguished by specific morphological characteristics, such as color, leaf size and shape, and smell."

"According to preliminary information provided exclusively to Cannabis Culture, GW's medical devices will revolutionize the way cannabis is ingested. Cannabis extracts blended in precise ratios will be packaged in a "canister" that joins to an electromechanical device that delivers controlled aerosolized doses of plant-derived cannabinoids without delivering harmful combustion by-products."

"The canisters and delivery devices will be dispensed by pharmacists, and closely monitored by pharmacists, doctors, and GW itself."

""Pharmaceutical companies spend hundreds of millions of dollars researching and producing medicines, but as soon as those medicines are given to patients, they can be improperly used," Guy explains. "Patients might use too much, too little, or they might divert their medications to other people. For medications like cannabis that are controlled substances, it's essential that medical personnel be able to monitor dosage patterns. Our devices are like a digital camera that records details of time, date and other particulars every time it is used.""

""Physicians will be able to monitor patient usage remotely," continued Guy. "People won't be able to tamper with our devices, even though they are portable and easy to use. You'd need a metal saw or a blowtorch to get into one of them. These controls answer concerns of those who worry that our extracts will be used inappropriately. And, these devices can be adapted for other medicines, ensuring patient safety and medical efficacy.""

"Dr Guy and his representatives have engaged in high level discussions with the DEA, FDA, the Office for National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP), National Institute for Drug Abuse (NIDA) and senior state officials in California and Maine."

""We've made some progress in the US," Guy says. "We've commenced pre-clinical research in laboratories and other research in a university. This research is aimed at cell protection properties, general pharmacology, and the enhancement of effects afforded by beneficial synergy created when cannabinoids are blended together rather than isolated. The DEA has approved importation of our extracts into the US. They haven't said no to us on anything we've asked so far. They are playing it by the book. We look forward to continued progress.""

""GW occupies a lead position world-wide," concludes Guy. "We are uniquely placed to become the first company to achieve regulatory approval for prescription cannabis-based medicines.""
SEE:http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/articles/2400.html

In an interview with Cannabis Culture Magazine, the Chairman of GW Pharma Dr. Geoffrey Guy said "We deserve to make a fair return on our investment, and that's why we pursued patents for our plants, extracts, processes, and delivery devices."

Here are some names dropped in the article:

Drug Policy Alliance, Council on Foreign Relations, Chase Manhattan Bank, United Defense Industries, Carlyle Group, George Soros, Petrobras petroleum company, Hess Corp petroleum company, Monsanto corporation, Citigroup Inc., and Suncor Energy Inc., the College of Biological Science of the University of Minnesota, DEA, the Kenex corporation based in Ontario Canada and the HortaPharm corporation based in Amsterdam, Ridgetown College of University of Guelph in Ontario, Bayor Incorporated, Dupont, Syngenta and Dow Chemical corporation, David Watson ("credited for developing some of the most widely used Cannabis strains in the world, including his famous strain called Skunk #1 which was imported and used in George Weiblens research to develop GE Cannabis strains at the University of Minnesota."), GW Pharmaceuticals.

Free weed (as in non-patented weed) needs to be/will have to be fought hard for - the "other" people of the United States, "Corporations" have in their heads that they own natures gifts, not the earth, not humans beings - but just them, the Corporations, and any use of natures gifts requires a fee paid to them.

What Jerry's generation and I suspect mine and the one before invented was the widespread use of cannabis as a social drug. The NA's used it for thousands of years. ...

It goes much more back in time than even Native American use, and has had basic medical/science studies done on it in Europe, USA & India for hundreds of years:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/marijuana1.htm

The history of marijuana use reaches back farther than many would guess. Cultivation of the Cannabis sativa plant dates back thousands of years. The first written account of cannabis cultivation (ostensibly used as medical marijuana) is found in Chinese records dating from 28 B.C. That means Chinese cultures were growing marijuana more than 2,000 years ago. However, the plant may have been cultivated long before then -- there have been reports of a nearly 3,000-year-old Egyptian mummy containing traces of THC, the main psychoactive chemical in marijuana.

But I would not feel so all alone
Everybody must get stoned - Bob Dylan

As to those who make any claim about THC messing up with the body chemistry - anything you put in yer system does that. Fer Krist sake have ya ever seen a kid on a sugar high. It is likely that physical adjustments play out in our well being such as sunlight, air pressure and oh boy sex. Any sex addicts? The only freaking problem with pot is the legal consequences.

Legalize it

tax it

smoke it

sleep tight

are you experienced? - Jimi Hendrix

peace

oh did I mention I'm 58 and have smoked regularly since I was 13

James,

There's also a sort of underground, even in legal states. Many don't want to be part of the lists that the government develops. People are afraid that the laws will change and that those on the list will be targeted.

This is actually a pretty sophisticated response. Possession of small amounts, up to two ozs, is generally ignored, or a citation is issued.

Grows are being forced in doors for security reasons. There have been several shootings and a few deaths as gangs have taken to raiding private grows.

Of course this upsets authorities, and growers alike. Thus the push to centralize production into a few large growers who are licensed to grow huge amounts. Of course, this is developing into a coporate money grab as well.

However these types of issues arise from the uneven legislation from city to city, and state to state. This circumstance makes growing and distributing very profitable for those wanting to distribute in non-legal states.

So many, rather than making themselves known to authorities, simply keep using their 'black market' connections who are likely licensed themselves, but are willing to sell under the table to long time customers.

In my view, the government doesn't want to face the nightmare of having to release a bunch of folks from prison. This element of the debate is a huge, mostly unaddressed problem.

What happens to those government offices that serve the enforcement machine? All those folks have to be retasked or laid off...

It's a huge mess whose issues are being used to fight party politics. You know like all the other huge messes we face and can't seem to make progress on...

it just helps me relax...take a slight edge off...

Textbook definition of addiction.

If you need "something" to "help you relax" or "take the edge off" - that's a sign of dependency.

yeah sure....most americans take a psychoactive substance to "take the edge off" every day in the mornings...and u too, tobii, for sure.....most of us wake up, and can't wait to make, wait for it, a pot of coffee...yep, coffee (caffeine) is a psychoactive substance that can cause hallucinations, psychotic episodes, and yes, even overdoses. even its withdrawal symptoms are more extreme than marijuana's. remember what they say about removing thy mote from thyself's eye before trying to grab somebody's elses mote...or whatever i mean....yeah.

In my view, the government doesn't want to face the nightmare of having to release a bunch of folks from prison. This element of the debate is a huge, mostly unaddressed problem.

it's already happening....violent rapists and murderers and thieves and other assorted criminals are released to make room for non-violent marijuana users, cuz it's more profitable to go after stoners than criminals, after all, they get to pick up goodies at every raid by forfeiture of houses, cars, tv's, computers, hell, even pets....oh yeah...some bull@!$%# right there.

...or how about using one of those chemical filled cigarettes to "take the edge off"????

Too bad alcohol and tobacco users don't have to jump through the same hoops...tell me the medicinal value of tobacco!!!!

Too bad alcohol and tobacco users don't have to jump through the same hoops...tell me the medicinal value of tobacco!!!!

Tobacco actually makes a great pesticide and is a main ingredient in some commercial pesticides (Nicotine), though it's banned from use on Organic food/pot because of its toxicity - it can be used liberally on non-organic crops though! To make your own all you have to do is make a strong tea with a couple cigs, let it cool and spray it on your house plants! No pest!

lol james....we're talking about smoking it and using it in our bodies, not spraying it outside...i believe it would make a great pesticide though...i mean, cancer, right?

(A continuation of msg#1.66) correction: Nicotine is allowed on some Organic products I've found/read :( The pot club I go to doesn't allow it's use on their organic pot :) Not sure though about Ca standards for Organic foods :/

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/10/101027124734.htm

http://www.coopext.colostate.edu/4dmg/VegFruit/organic.htm

Nicotine is extracted from tobacco or related Nicotiana species and is one of the oldest botanical insecticides in use today. It's also one of the most toxic to warm-blooded animals and it's readily absorbed through the skin. (Wear gloves when applying it, follow label directions and keep pets away from application areas.) It breaks down quickly, however, so it is legally acceptable to use on organically grown crops.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/nicotine7.htm

Toxicity

Anti-smoking advocates highlight the long-term health effects, like cancer and emphysema, that result from a lifetime of smoking or chewing tobacco -- but these maladies are the result of chemicals in cigarettes other than nicotine. Unfortunately, the fact that nicotine alone is an extremely toxic poison often goes unmentioned. Not many people realize that nicotine is also sold commercially in the form of a pesticide! And every year, many children go to the emergency room after eating cigarettes or cigarette butts. Sixty milligrams of nicotine (about the amount in three or four cigarettes if all of the nicotine were absorbed) will kill an adult, but consuming only one cigarette's worth of nicotine is enough to make a toddler severely ill.

What happens to people after ingesting nicotine? Nicotine poisoning causes vomiting and nausea, headaches, difficulty breathing, stomach pains and seizures. Each of these symptoms can be traced back to excessive stimulation of cholinergic neurons. People poisoned by organophosphate insecticides experience the exact same symptoms. With organophosphates, acetylcholine builds up at synapses and overstimulates the neurons. Because nicotine is so similar to acetylcholine, and binds to cholinergic receptors, nicotine in excess produces the same overstimulation and toxicity. The more nicotine binding to the nicotinic cholinergic receptors, the more acetylcholine is subsequently released and free to activate other subsets of cholinergic receptors.

joe420er

lol james....we're talking about smoking it and using it in our bodies, not spraying it outside...i believe it would make a great pesticide though...i mean, cancer, right?

• !

#1.67 - Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:21 PM PST

Really all I wanted to point out was that while cig smokers can legally smoke their poison sticks, marijuana users are criminalized by state and federal authorities for using a completely non-toxic substance. A substance so non-toxic that it has very little natural protection from pest. To achieve such a protection, a legal toxic substance (people like to consume internally via smoking) can be used as a toxic barrier to pest therefor protecting the non-toxic substance (the marijuana). Ass backwards in that a completely non-toxic substance has to be fought hard for to be freely used used to any degree, while society has the hardest time getting rid of harmful tobacco smokers who fight tooth and nail whenever new smoking limitation laws are proposed - even the most basic laws such as no smoking in multi-unit housing, places of employment, with a child in the car, etc...

People who choose to take the edge off with a cig are doing far more harm to themselves and people around them than someone smoking marijuana is doing to themselves or the people around them in terms of immediate & long term health cost.

voted up for your argument....nice way of comparing the non-toxic and toxic sides of marijuana and tobacco...i bet if marijuana was used in that way, it'd be a super fertilizer!

yeah sure....most americans take a psychoactive substance to "take the edge off" every day in the mornings...and u too, tobii, for sure.....

Do you even have a clue what you are talking about?

Caffeine is a stimulant, vasoconstrictor and bronchodilator - not a depressant - it MAKES you "edgy".

People don't drink coffee to "take the edge off" - they drink it to "put the edge ON".

Which brings me to the next ridiculous point - "taking the edge off" - as if people who routinely smoke marijuana have a job that requires them to be "on edge". Please. It's an excuse, that's all it ever will be. The only time a marijuana smoker is "on edge" is when they are almost out of marijuana.

yeah, not the most grammatically statement, but i meant it in a way as millions of americans use it kinda recreationally when it's a psychoactive substance that's more toxic, addictive and damaging than marijuana...for me anyway, it takes the edge off of having to get up at 5:30 in the mornings, it relaxes me as i drink it and helps me to come to terms with the fact that i have to leave and jump into life every morning...which i hate doing but i have to do it...so it takes the edge off of the mornings for me, personally...i mean, it gets me energized but i take a little time relax with a pot of coffee before leaving. and you know what, stress is a part of everyday life...that's why millions of people have to "take the edge off"...( and getting up in the morning is one of the most stressful part of life!)

"Caffeine is a stimulant, vasoconstrictor and bronchodilator - not a depressant - it MAKES you "edgy".

People don't drink coffee to "take the edge off" - they drink it to "put the edge ON"."

not when you're addicted. Cigarettes are also stimulants but when someone's having a nervous episode they go to them for comfort.

"as if people who routinely smoke marijuana have a job that requires them to be "on edge"."

source your claim. All the smokers I know have a job.

james ca. #1.66

Tobacco actually makes a great pesticide and is a main ingredient in some commercial pesticides (Nicotine)

You are correct about tobacco being used as a pesticide. Back in the day, farmers and ranchers would feed plugs of chewing tobacco to their horses as a dewormer. The horses ate it without hesitation because it has a sweet flavor or so I am told. You know how a kid has to taste things that adults are eating or using. I liked the smell of the stuff but the taste as far as I was concerned was YUCK!

From my childhood I remember some of the old school elderly used hand pump sprayers to spray an nasty smelling, brown-black liquid on their home gardens. I don't remember what all went into that concoction but I do know the ones I watched used plug tobacco as the base.

One of the things making cigarettes so dangerous today is all the added ingredients / chemicals the Tobacco industry uses to enhance flavor, increase shelf life, reduce harshness, etc. I've seen packages of cigarettes that are "cherry", "Strawberry" and "Raspberry" flavored. I know the flavoring is not the real thing but artificially produced meaning more chemicals your body has to deal it.

I have not smoked pot since the early 80's. Thai sitck was the version of choice for me and I recall a good buzz what had by one and all. I have heard and read that some of the producers are now "enhancing" their pot to make it more potent and/or better tasting. These new, more potent versions may give the smoker more bang for their bucks but I can not see where they are safer for the smoker as the old fashion, organic, plant only type. It means more chemicals your body must deal with.

there is nothing unsafe about the "enhanced" bud these days...there is nothing "enhanced", it is just the bud itself just like always, only these days growers are more aware of each strain and which strain goes best together to produce stronger bud...it's basically natural and we're just helping it along...there's no crazy chemicals added and nothing synthetic or unnatural...i only smoke organic bud grown in either hydro or soil...hydro is not too unnatural in that cannabis is grown in rockwool or similar materials and its roots are flushed with water everyday, and that's the extent of it...in fact, the potency of bud these days are not due to higher levels of THC, it is because of lower levels of CBD's, which counteract THC's harmful effects. however, if the CBD's are too low, i suppose it could be more harmful than benefical to people, however it wouldn't pose a great danger to most people, just the few who are already mentally unbalanced...CBD's are great for people like that...btw, i know what's in my bud because i know my growers. i visit their crops...i see what they do...so it's not as dangerous as you imagine...i mean, the sythenic drug marinol is more dangerous than any strain of cannabis out there because it has absolutely no CBD's in it to counteract the harmful effects of THC, and that @!$%#'s FDA approved and pumped out by big pharma...

All the smokers I know have a job.

The comment was -

as if people who routinely smoke marijuana have a job that requires them to be "on edge".

and the only thing that needs to be said about that is everyone stresses on their job, no matter if it's workin in mcdonald's or as a secret service agent or whatever the hell you want to imagine. vets, newspaper delivery, store clerk, janitor, president of america, soldier, whatever, they all get stressed. no matter how trivial a job is, you can believe most people need to take the edge off after a long day of hard work...

they all get stressed

Oh so now you need marijuana because of "stress".

you can believe most people need to take the edge off after a long day of hard work...

They don't do it by smoking marijuana. That's a piss-poor excuse for legitimizing an addiction.

yeah sure, you could say the same about coffee, alcohol, tobacco, most prescription drugs, television, the internet (lol), reading books, etc....pretty much anything people do to relax...plus, i don't smoke it up because of stress...i never said i did...just saying, people worldwide get stressed, no matter what kind of job they have...personally, when i get stressed, i work out with my weights or go for a jog...that's it. barely even drink too...

tobii,

I need marijuana because of stress.

A diabetic needs insulin because of an inability to control blood sugar.

Many people take prozac or valium or alcohol or whatever to deal with stress.

The difference is for all the others we haven't been trained to despise the substance being taken to address whatever issue is at hand.

The socialization aspect of substance abuse is rarely sufficiently addressed in my view. It is one thing to have a drinking problem, it is another to face the alienation that accompanies it. An alienation that is not necessary and is in fact counterproductive if you are trying to produce a sobering change.

Many people take prozac or valium or alcohol or whatever to deal with stress.

Many more people don't need drugs to deal with their "stress".

Stress is NOT an excuse for illegal drug usage.

tobii,

"Stress is NOT an excuse for illegal drug usage."

Sure it is, that's why so many people use it as one.

As said, pot today is not "enhanced" in any way except maybe by a rare dubious street dealer or possibly a club - but I've never heard of a club doing that, and the only place I've ever heard of or experienced "enhancements" being added to MJ was other street drugs by street dealers before Medical Marijuana - there were times when the baggy of weed would have a slight white powdery residue to it, and we would not purchase it or throw it away if we did, it was always a risk to buy it on the street - but still always less risky to ones life than drinking legal alcohol.

Another reason why pot is stronger today is because it is most often grown in very controlled environments. A plant outside, using all it's energy, must split that energy between many functions from fighting disease, bugs, hot & cold & wet & dry conditions, plus creating all the trademark chemicals such as THC, CBD. In the very controlled environments MJ is grown in today, the plant has to put very little energy into fighting/regulating the environment/itself - the plant is simply given the perfect environment to grow without any threats to it, giving it the opportunity to give all its energy to other functions.

I use pot for many reasons tobiii. One I think we might be able to agree on is for recreation, I use pot as a recreational toy, to have fun with. To desire funtime, recreation is a very basic human concept/trait which is pretty much impossible to remove from the human psyche, no? Why should I not have the right to have fun with a plant that is non-toxic? Why, if I have made the smart healthy conscious choice not to partake in known to be lethal and very toxic legal substances for recreation, should I then simply be denied the right other people have to use "legal" substances for recreational purposes (which BTW are very toxic and dangerous)?

I choose pot because I don't want to die by chance while using a substance to artificially enhance my recreational experience.

Many people take prozac or valium or alcohol or whatever to deal with stress.

Many more people don't need drugs to deal with their "stress".

lol, i wonder how many therapists and shrinks, etc. prescribe many of the prescription drugs we have these days just for...stress?

@!$%#, so much that their names are common household names! millions are prescribed toxic drugs daily due to just stress everyday...

prescribe many of the prescription drugs we have these days just for...stress?

Where did I mention PRESCRIPTION drugs?

My quote, had you read it -

Stress is NOT an excuse for illegal drug usage

Try to pay attention.

"as if people who routinely smoke marijuana have a job that requires them to be "on edge"."

they certainly don't have relaxing jobs. Why hate on how they choose to relax?

tobii,

"Stress is NOT an excuse for illegal drug usage"

And I said, sure it is, that is why so many people use stress as a reason to use illegal drugs. (I spelled it out a little more clearly here)

You probably weren't paying attention when I wrote that right under the referenced comment.

:)

Many more people don't need drugs to deal with their "stress".

that's all i needed to pay attention to...because regardless of that statement, the world just doesn't agree with you....illegal or not...

You couldn't pay attention long enough to read the second sentence?

Good grief, there were only TWO sentences - it's not like you had to read..GASP!...a PARAGRAPH!

who cares about the second sentence? the sentence i took issue with was the first one...gasp! is that too hard to comprehend? both sentences are good enough to stand on their own...so i figure fair game and all that. i'm sorry miss hall monitor, i didn't know i was breaking ur rules...

newwtricks,

I have a pot addled brain. Can I step in?

If you legalize pot you can let all the kids out of prison who are there for possession and local sales. This prevents them from being abused in prison by actual criminals. After a few years of being abused in prison, the kid in for a bag of dope might actually become a dangerous criminal. And with only a pot conviction, he'll be getting out soon and might be coming to a neighborhood near you.

I think that right there is enough reason to legalize pot. Especially since there's no decent reason to have criminalized it in the first place.

newtricks,

btw how is referring to Jerry as having a pot addled brain not a direct personal attack?

I mean didn't you start your #7.1 chastising Jerry for a personal attack (his mild sarcastic comment) And in the very same sentence you retaliate, with an actual CoH violation...

Ya can't teach old dogs newtricks Jerry LOL!

Hey jerry,

it seems your snarky comment proves that you can't produce a positive aspect of making pot legal. There are no sound reasons given in this thread as of yet to show a positive side of making pot legal. And all you can do is to insinuate that I don't know what I am talking about, a CoH violation.

Flameaway, thank you for confirming what I already suspected. I made an assumption that you had a pot addled brain, but I didn't want to insult you by mentioning it. Your remarks are proof positive of the negative effects of smoking pot for extended periods of time.

And to kilroy, don't quit your day job. Your attempt at humor missed the mark just a bit. For those of you who "get around" much more than I do, my screen name comes from a different site named Olddogg.com. It was a site that had started after propeller.com was removed.

For any of you to try to defend that pot does not have negative effects on aperson's life is to admit you are not living in reality. There is plenty of research that shows that prolonged use of pot affects the body in a negative way. To make an argument that it harms no one is just false.

There are no sound reasons given in this thread as of yet to show a positive side of making pot legal

I think there is just not a good enough reason to keep it illegal, spend so much money policing it, and ruin so many lives because of it. People wind up in jail and with felonies on their records due to pot, and it is hard to make a case that it is significantly worse than alcohol. In fact, it is often easier to make the case that alcohol is significantly worse than marijuana.

For any of you to try to defend that pot does not have negative effects on aperson's life is to admit you are not living in reality. There is plenty of research that shows that prolonged use of pot affects the body in a negative way.

I think you are absolutely right about this.

It is very hard to have a rational discussion about marijuana in America. The ridiculous war waged on the drug and its users is balanced on the other side by people who pretend the stuff is actually good for you and certainly no worse for anyone than a cup of herbal tea.

Marijuana has a much longer half life in the system than alcohol. Maybe some people function better than others with a nearly permanent amount of the drug in their system, but some certainly do not function well with it. Marijuana has its victims -- derailed academic careers, etc.

newtrick,

Why would you worry about offending me with the pot addled brain comment and not Jerry?

By the way, if you are not confident enough to debate someone with a pot addled brain...

I don't think the Special Olympics has a debate team...

;)

Gulliver,

Calling a failed academic career the fault of marijuans seems a bit of a stretch. There are probably other factors with more impact. Like self esteem.

There are a spectrum of reasons that undermine an individual's success. So, if you blame a drug, likely being taken to cover the symptoms arising from these deeper problems, are you addressing the deeper issues, or making the problem worse by simplifying it into a one cause problem?

And, doesn't it strike you that success itself is a plastic concept and properly determined by each individual?

And, doesn't it strike you that success itself is a plastic concept and properly determined by each individual?

Are you smoking pot right now?

I've seen pot reduce people to a complete state of incapacitation. And of course, it always the fault of everything else in their lives but the drug they have chosen to center their life around. /sarc

Addiction is a complicated subject. There are addictive personalities, prone to addiction, just as there are addictive substances. Not all drugs are created equal however. An addiction to coffee can probably lead to hypertension and insomnia, and it is probably one of the easier addictions to kick. An addiction to nicotine causes an array of health issues and can lead one to spend their final years with emphysema or cancer. Likewise, alcohol leads to all sorts of health problems, like damaged organs and cancer. It can lead to diabetes, and there is a toll of collateral damage from alcoholics -- like automobile accidents and child abuse.

Marijuana degrades a person's mental capacities. It wreaks havoc on one's memory, and quite frankly, leads to most of the other stereotypes of being a pothead.

People endlessly singing the praises of marijuana aren't fooling anyone at all, except maybe, themselves.

But should marijuana be illegal? I really don't think so. It's impossible for me to justify alcohol being legal while marijuana isn't.

The entire war on drugs should probably be reconsidered in a way that takes the profit incentives away from the drug cartels and treats addiction as a health issue rather than something to wage a shooting war upon.

And waging a war on drugs probably does little to affect the bell curve of distribution of drug abuse amongst the population. For everyone destined to become some sort of addict, there is someone else who never even tries a single drink or toke in their life, and there is a whole array between.

Marijuana is just one of many drugs that can be abused -- and it is abused on a regular basis. There are some people who seem to be able to integrate regular marijuana use into what appears to be a high-functioning lifestyle. They would have us believe that is the norm for marijuana use. I tend to doubt that. From what I have seen, marijuana is more likely to be integrated into a low-functioning lifestyle.

People endlessly singing the praises of marijuana aren't fooling anyone at all. Except maybe themselves.....From what I have seen, marijuana is more likely to be integrated into a low-functioning lifestyle.

Voted up, Gulliver.

some people are clueless, and link the use of Marijuana to every negative symptom a person has.

pot causes short term memory issues, which result in long term memory gains.. It's amazing I have seen great people fall from grace, after never touching weed, but if they smoked a single joint, every failure is blamed on the weed, instead of realizing, they used weed or other drugs as coping mechanisisms for dealing with lifes failures.

I am a regular pot user, and have returned to college, and still get straight A's .. along with many of my fellow students.. the anti-weed people fail to consider... people fail and succeed both on and off of weed... and while there are studies SUGGESTING... negative effects.. all can be shown to be biased in origin...

but you go on deluding yourselves, if you can't get through your day without feeling you are better than someone that smokes weed.. it's YOUR flaw.. not the pot smokers..

pot causes short term memory issues, which result in long term memory gains.

It is a well known fact that impairing one's short-term memory boosts their long term memory -- kind of like how going blind enhances one's sense of smell.

Come to think of it, I think I smell something right now...

and have returned to college

Good for you.

Hate to be a nitpicker here, but I think your life would be a little less complicated if you weren't toting all that weed around. Returning to college is a wonderful thing, but it is probably better to have not left it in the first place.

Gulliver,

"Are you smoking put right now?"

Yes.

I keep having to point this out to people. When you laugh at my question and then fail to answer it. It means you deflected the argument to comfortable ground for you.

My short term memory tells me that I was specifically asking you about your assertion that marijuana was a determing factor in a person's failure to achieve academic success.

You wrote about eight paragraphs that essentially restated your position, but failed to answer my questions.

Is it because you didn't understand the questions I asked? Or just that you couldn't answer forthrightly without backtracking a bit?

Is it because you didn't understand the questions I asked? Or just that you couldn't answer forthrightly without backtracking a bit?

I dignify what I choose to with a response.

If I didn't dignify a particular point with a response, I probably didn't care to bother.

your assertion that marijuana was a determing factor in a person's failure to achieve academic success.

Yeah, I think being on drugs while supposedly working on a degree in college can lead to failing to achieve the degree and dropping out of college.

Surely, there are people who smoke a lot of weed, etc. and do well in school -- or do well in party schools -- who knows? Whatever the case, we should hold them up as shining examples of the American Dream. Actually, we don't have to -- they all seem to be here on Newsvine bragging endlessly about their great academic successes, all apparently achieved while being stoned out of their minds.

Call me a skeptic, if you must.

Gulliver,

So, how do I know the difference between a point you can't answer and one that is undignified for you to answer.

:)

Okay, so you think that drug use is the determining factorin academic failure. It's not the other problems a student faces, like self esteem? Is this your position?

It's funny how marijuana advocates seem to think that the rest of the world lives in a cave and has neither tried marijuana nor knows anyone in their families who's a pot-head.

I find myself arguing about pot with someone who is already smoking pot first thing on a Sunday morning, and I really have to make an elaborate case that pot becomes a life-derailing distraction for people?

HEY! Newtricks

There is plenty of research that shows that prolonged use of pot affects the body in a negative way. To make an argument that it harms no one is just false

Please provide your research that you speak of . And government research is not an unbiased opinion either. Here is a link that you missed from above Please TRY to read it

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/282786/20120117/ron-paul-end-marijuana-prohibition-5-myths.htm

I really disagree with your thinking and I am not sorry for the joke on your name as it is harmless. You are entitled to your opinion,as is everyone else you were the first to make a comment that attacked the seeder and that was out of line you might need anger managment classes

I spoke of my own experiences with marijuana and not for others because we are all different and react to things differently. I do remember the first time i smoked it, it made me sick.. The next time I tried it I got a buzz and ate a lot of food. I never have influenced anyone into smoking it it is their choice (as it should be) Questions 4 U SIR do you drink? or smoke cigarettes? drink coffee or tea? perhaps? all of these are drugs And cause health problems for some people. If you do not like it fine don't do it .

Remember this.

in the 60"s they (the government said " it makes you passive an not want to fight

the 80's it makes you respond 10 seconds slower to HEY STUPID! Not to forget that President Ronald Reagan said "ANY STATE THAT DOES NOT REVERSE ITS POLOICIES ON MARIJUANA, WILL NOT RECEIVE ANY FEDERAL FUNDING FOR ANY REASON.

In 2000 they said it was linked to violent crime.

The Alaska state legislature had a lobbyist before them on behalf of the state troopers that said that statement. the reply was the before mentioned 60'& 80"s statements I typed and he asked this lobbiest do you really expect us to believe this statement that you just made?? He was at a loss for words because there was not any data to back it up kinda like you right now sir! And if you have no experience with it you really have no clue or a real say about something you know nothing about. I have had jokes made of me before and it never hurt me it made me laugh and made me think about what it was that I said. So I know better the next time. And I do not make personal attacks like I did when I first started making my comments. We have come to a point where we agree to disagree. So have a good sunday Sir as for my day job I work to make power that lights up your life.

Gulliver,

"I find myself arguing about pot with someone who is already smoking pot first thing on a Sunday morning, and I really have to make an elaborate case that pot becomes a life-derailing distraction for people?"

Yeah, pretty much. You took a position; I challenged it; you're running.

Okay, so you think that drug use is the determining factor in academic failure. It's not the other problems a student faces, like self esteem? Is this your position?

Gulliver,

Does it strike you that I seem to be holding my own pretty well inspite of having used marijuana a few times already today?

:)_~

that's funny cuz i smoke it up everyday and i'm in a private university...been about 2 yrs now and already more than half the people i met have dropped out, and most of them didn't even smoke it up...yah, it's a good point about stoners not being able to hang with intellectuals...ironic, i mean, bill gates and steve jobs and paul allen all smoked it up back when they were still writing programs...yeah, stoners always fail...sure, sure....and no, i don't live with mommy and daddy, i been on my own since i was 17 and i'm busy raising my family and making sure they got a roof over their heads these days...

hey killroy, don't ask tricks for those kind of stats, he/she only pulls up government propaganda...lol, right, now that's a really valid source...

if not for pot I would be on 7 or 8 pharmacuticals at a much higher cost... but thanks for wishing to make my less complicated,

pot was not a factor when I left college, money was, so I used the education I had to gain employment..

weed was not a factor in losing that employment, the economy was... weed was not a factor in returning to college, the economy was..

weed is not a factor in working towards my goals..

MY POINT is people are INDIVIDUALS, and it is wrong to ASSume cause and effect.. I could argue I am getting A's BECAUSE I smoke weed.. but I know I get A's cause I am smart.. I smoke weed to aleve symptoms of crones...

It's funny to find opponets of pot with nothing better to do on a sunday than argue that their opponents have nothing better to do than argue on a sunday. so am I the POT, have a good day "KETTLE"

yeah, except you're green, not black. lol...

Jim420,

I actually moved to a legal state just so that I could use marijuana. Now for $50-$150 a month, I'm acheiving a higher level of functioning than was possible with the various meds in was on that ran almost $600.00 per month.

When I imagine that savings spread across a country recovered from its paranoia about one of the most remarkable products nature has given us. I realize that is why there is such resisitance.

If you and I saved around 20 meds between us using a plant we could grow in our basement or back yard, what would that trend do to big pharma spread wide across our country?

I think it would reshape the health care debate.

Does it strike you that I seem to be holding my own pretty well inspite of having used marijuana a few times already today?

I think holding one's own on Newsvine is a pretty low bar. And whether you are holding your own, or not, is a subjective matter.

well gullible, i think against the litmus test that is "gulliver's island," flame's holding his own...must be high praise indeed, since it's seemingly obvious that you have such a high bar of standards...even if the newsvine's a low brow kinda thing, you should be able to blow flame out of the water easily, if you're so superior...which is also a subjective matter, btw...

oh, and flamey, if you're a woman, my apologies. also, if you don't like my playing with ur name, don't take offense...i do that to everyone...

Gulliver,

You play alot of dodge ball, huh?

;)

I just got some new pot. My mother-in-law gave it to me.

It seems to have turned me into Perry Mason.

ohhh...scary thought....perry mason on pot....he'd be unbeatable then!

:)

Yeah, but he'd be on our side.

Gulliver,

You play alot of dodge ball, huh?

I think that people get angry when their addictions are challenged.

Let's just say that I file claims like "smoking pot has had no effect on my grades" along with "I have no trouble driving after a couple of drinks" and, ultimately, "I can quite anytime I want."

Joe420er

If he/she can find them and post them I'll read them, I want to be fair to this poster newtricks.

It however does not mean I'll agree,but I'll wait an see.

Gulliver,

I'm not angry, I'm persistent.

However, you're too shifty for me. I'll go find someone else to play with.

:)

Cya

Let's just say that I file claims like "smoking pot has had no effect on my grades" along with "I have no trouble driving after a couple of drinks" and, ultimately, "I can quite anytime I want."

I file dismissal of factual information as biased and see it occurs when one has lost the arguement..

either that or you just AGREED POT can have a POSITIVE effect on grades ( I had the highest score on my CFOT exam ( fiber optic technical )... I would sumbit, pot MAY effect SOME people, in VARIED ways, of VARIED degrees.. read your history, this countrys founding documents were written by men smoking weed, . but you seem to insist it''s all or none..

People who talk about getting great grades while stoned is precisely what is wrong with America.

No wonder we rank so low in the world academically.

Here's a passage from the Internet, so it must be true:

Does smoking pot make you mentally dull (think Jeff Spicoli Fast Times at Ridgemont high)? Again there may be some reassurance to pot smokers on this front. The association between chronic marijuana exposure and cognitive dysfunction has been extensively studied but with varying results. A syndrome formerly known as the "amotivational syndrome," now called the "chronic cannabis syndrome," has been described in which chronic heavy users with cognitive impairment have a reduced ability to establish or attain goals in life, resulting in jobs that require less cognitive challenge or technological acuity.

In an analysis of 13 studies, long-term marijuana use did not result in deficits in seven of eight neuropsychological ability areas tested; but there was a small but significant decrement in the area of learning new information. Since then, published studies have had conflicting results and here are some highlights. One study compared cognitive function in longer term and shorter term marijuana users at a mean of 17 hours after last reported marijuana use. Deficits in memory, attention, learning and retrieval function were significantly greater among the longer-term marijuana users. Longer term marijuana users (four or more joints per week for a minimum of 10 years), tested after a minimum of 24 hours abstinence, and had impaired verbal memory skills compared to shorter term users and controls. Both longterm and shorter users showed inferior performance on psychomotor speed, attention, and executive functions compared with controls.

If this is their definition of "mixed results," I would say that they too have a very low bar for "results."

Trouble acquiring new information and trouble following through on goals in life sounds like something awfully serious, to me. In fact, it sounds like exactly what the grownups keep warning the kids that pot will do to them. Probably because our parents have smoked more weed than we will ever know.

And then there's THIS elephant in the room (from the same place on the Internet):

What about lung problems, will it cause lung disease? The association between tobacco smoking and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) HAS been established. Longterm pot smoking is associated with many symptoms of obstructive pulmonary disease: airflow obstruction, chronic cough, bronchitis, and decreased exercise tolerance. Regular smokers of three to four marijuana cigarettes per day experience cough, wheeze, and sputum production and exhibit abnormalities in the lungs equivalent to those who smoke approximately 20 tobacco cigarettes per day.

killroy, ur right. voted up. all sides should be considered, no matter how outrageous, until proven otherwise.

gulliver, strange that you have to mention all those things about marijuana...i have proof that disputes each one of your "false claims about marijuana" thinking:

on our thinking skills:

Cannabinoid receptors are downregulated and desensitized when exposed to high doses of THC. This effect results in "drug tolerance," which occurs at varying rates and magnitudes in different brain regions. For example, it occurs faster and greater in the hippocampus, which regulates memory, compared with the basal ganglia, which mediates euphoric effect.24 This difference may explain why memory loss decreases among frequent cannabis users, but its euphoric effects remain.

http://www.jaoa.org/cgi/content/full/108/10/586

Marijuana’s Impact On Brain Function “Minimal,” New Study Says

Authors wrote, “We reviewed literature reporting neuroimaging studies of chronic or acute cannabis use published up until January 2009. … Sixty-six studies were identified, of which 41 met the inclusion criteria. Thirty-three were functional (SPECT/PET/fMRI) and eight structural (volumetric/DTI) imaging studies. … Only three of the structural imaging studies found differences between users and controls.”

Investigators concluded, “Minimal evidence of major effects of cannabis on brain structure has been reported,” noting that marijuana users and controls perform similarly on cognitive tasks.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19627647 (government site)

In a paper published in the Journal of Neuroscience, the researchers report on their studies into cannabidiol – a naturally occurring molecule found in cannabis.

Also known as CBD, it is not the constituent that gives the high – that compound is called tetrahydrocannabinol or THC – and so may be more acceptable as a drug treatment.

Both compounds are currently used in a pharmaceutical medicine to help patients relieve pain and other symptoms of Multiple Sclerosis.

Now researchers have discovered how CBD actually works within brain cells.

By interacting with mitochondria – which are the power generators of all cells – it can help maintain normal levels of calcium allowing cells to function properly and providing a greater resistance to damage.

Disturbance of calcium levels has long been associated with a number of brain disorders. So the finding could have implications for the development of new treatments for disorders related to malfunctioning mitochondria.

http://www.jneurosci.org/content/29/7/2053.abstract?sid=4d39de15-5cd5-4193-b7b9-7aa1dbf21ca3

basically that means there's no real damage to our minds.

on driving:

"[In] cases in which THC was the only drug present were analyzed, the culpability ratio was found to be not significantly different from the no-drug group."

REFERENCE: G. Chesher and M. Longo. 2002. Cannabis and alcohol in motor vehicle accidents. In: F. Grotenhermen and E. Russo (Eds.) Cannabis and Cannabinoids: Pharmacology, Toxicology, and Therapeutic Potential. New York: Haworth Press. Pp. 313-323.

"Cannabis leads to a more cautious style of driving, [but] it has a negative impact on decision time and trajectory. [However,] this in itself does not mean that drivers under the influence of cannabis represent a traffic safety risk. … Cannabis alone, particularly in low doses, has little effect on the skills involved in automobile driving."

REFERENCE: Canadian Senate Special Committee on Illegal Drugs. 2002. Cannabis: Summary Report: Our Position for a Canadian Public Policy. Ottawa. Chapter 8: Driving Under the Influence of Cannabis.

"This report has summarized available research on cannabis and driving.
… Evidence of impairment from the consumption of cannabis has been reported by studies using laboratory tests, driving simulators and on-road observation. ... Both simulation and road trials generally find that driving behavior shortly after consumption of larger doses of cannabis results in (i) a more cautious driving style; (ii) increased variability in lane position (and headway); and (iii) longer decision times. Whereas these results indicate a 'change' from normal conditions, they do not necessarily reflect 'impairment' in terms of performance effectiveness since few studies report increased accident risk."

REFERENCE: UK Department of Environment, Transport and the Regions (Road Safety Division). 2000. Cannabis and Driving: A Review of the Literature and Commentary. Crowthorne, Berks: TRL Limited.

"Overall, we conclude that the weight of the evidence indicates that:
1) There is no evidence that consumption of cannabis alone increases the risk of culpability for traffic crash fatalities or injuries for which hospitalization occurs, and may reduce those risks.
2) The evidence concerning the combined effect of cannabis and alcohol on the risk of traffic fatalities and injuries, relative to the risk of alcohol alone, is unclear.
3) It is not possible to exclude the possibility that the use of cannabis (with or without alcohol) leads to an increased risk of road traffic crashes causing less serious injuries and vehicle damage."

REFERENCE: M. Bates and T. Blakely. 1999. "Role of cannabis in motor vehicle crashes." Epidemiologic Reviews 21: 222-232.

"In conclusion, marijuana impairs driving behavior. However, this impairment is mitigated in that subjects under marijuana treatment appear to perceive that they are indeed impaired. Where they can compensate, they do, for example by not overtaking, by slowing down and by focusing their attention when they know a response will be required. … Effects on driving behavior are present up to an hour after smoking but do not continue for extended periods.
With respect to comparisons between alcohol and marijuana effects, these substances tend to differ in their effects. In contrast to the compensatory behavior exhibited by subjects under marijuana treatment, subjects who have received alcohol tend to drive in a more risky manner. Both substances impair performance; however, the more cautious behavior of subjects who have received marijuana decreases the impact of the drug on performance, whereas the opposite holds true for alcohol."

REFERENCE: A. Smiley. 1999. Marijuana: On-Road and Driving-Simulator Studies. In: H. Kalant et al. (Eds) The Health Effects of Cannabis. Toronto: Center for Addiction and Mental Health. Pp. 173-191.

on the addictiveness of marijuana:

as an example of the addictiveness of marijuana, we compare its withdrawal symptoms to other drugs and see how it isn't in fact as addictive as even coffee:

Cannabis "Withdrawal" Syndrome Short-Lived, Affects Few, Study Says

Symptoms associated with so-called "cannabis withdrawal" among marijuana "dependent" subjects are relatively mild, short-lived, and "may only be expected in a subgroup of ... patients," according to the results of a prospective clinical study to be published in the journal Drug and Alcohol Dependence.

Investigators at four separate German universities assessed the self-reported withdrawal symptoms of 73 subjects diagnosed with "cannabis dependence."

"The intensity of most self-reported symptoms peaked on day one and decreased subsequently," authors reported. "Most symptoms ranged on average between low to moderate intensity. The most frequently mentioned physical symptoms of strong or very strong intensity on the first day were sleeping problems (21 percent), sweating (28 percent), hot flashes (21 percent), and decreased appetite (15 percent). ... Other often highly rated psychological symptoms included restlessness (20 percent), nervousness (20 percent), and sadness (19 percent)."

Overall, less than 50 percent of the trial subjects reported physical or psychological withdrawal symptoms.

A 1999 review by the US National Academy of Sciences, Institute of Medicine reported that marijuana's withdrawal symptoms, when identified, are typically "mild and subtle" compared to the profound physical and psychological syndromes associated with most other intoxicants, including alcohol, nicotine, and caffeine.

RESULTS: 73 subjects (61.3%) completed all assessments over the observation period. Most symptoms peaked on day 1. Model-based analyses revealed a high and low intensity CWS group. Less than half of the patients belonged to the high intensity craving, psychological, or physical withdrawal symptoms group. Symptom intensity decreased almost linearly over time. Indicators of cannabis consumption intensity as well as personality dimensions, but not recalled withdrawal were related to membership in the high intensity CWS group.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19783382

And then there's the psychological aspects of pot along the lines of it making one paranoid:

Paranoia is one of the most unpleasant "side effects" of marijuana. It's also a key experience shared by marijuana smokers and people with schizophrenia. But exactly how does smoking a joint cause the feeling that dark forces are conspiring to do you wrong?

New research in rats may help explain the source of this distress.

Some of you will no doubt say that is why pot is so much fun! And that reality is for people who can't handle drugs, etc.

I would say to that: "Get a life!"

Come to think of it, I've changed my mind. Pot enthusiasts are just too damned annoying.

Marijuana should be illegal.

Listen, you can cite whatever studies you want. I have smoked both tobacco and pot.

I would smoke a pack a day...20 cigs or a few cigars. I would wake up every morning and hack...it was not only obviously unhealthy it was gross. I stopped cold turkey almost 10 years ago.

I smoke pot heavily. I smoke top shelf strains...Afghoo, Orange Comet, Stinky Sweet, Nirvana Ice, (if interested you can see them here my dispensary)....and probably 7 or 8 bowls a day...maybe 6 skinny joints or 5 average ones. I can tell you that food tastes better, I am breathing better and feel better overall.

Plus, you dont even get a buzz from tobacco unless you count that nasty green feeling you get from the chemicals.

I can tell you that food tastes better, I am breathing better and feel better overall.

They are your lungs, and last I checked, they are not my problem.

...not your problem or your concern what I put into them....agreed???

Gulliver,

Are you actually making some point for marijuana laws, or are you just railing against pot smokers? All I see is a deeply ingrained bias.

Are you actually making some point for marijuana laws, or are you just railing against pot smokers?

I generally hold these four positions:

(1) Pot should be legal but regulated like alcohol.

(2) Pot is bad for people. Pot is bad for people's lungs and bad for their minds. I don't want to be operated on by a surgeon who is stoned, in a bus with a stoned driver or in an airplane with a stoned pilot.

(3) We need to keep pot away from children and adolescents.

(4) Pot-heads are annoying and unreliable people.

you don't understand...many of our surgeons, bus drivers, pilots, etc. even police officers, politicians, judges, etc. etc. already smoke it up!

we all just smoke it up sensibly...we don't smoke a bowl before going to work first thing in the morning, and we're professional when we have to be.

it's also not bad for your lungs (no lung cancer), or your mind (no brain damage).

with legalization, kids will find it harder to get bud...right now it's easier for kids to get marijuana than beer or cigarettes, thanks to regulation of beer and cigarettes.

also, sober people are annoying and unreliable too...

you don't understand...many of our surgeons, bus drivers, pilots, etc. even police officers, politicians, judges, etc. etc. already smoke it up!

Most bus drivers and pilots are already subject to random drug testing.

I would happily add surgeons to the list. We have a national epidemic of operating room errors, in case you had not read about it.

I think a surgeon who performs surgery under the influence of alcohol or pot belongs in jail.

Gulliver,

Well seeing how badly you got spanked here; I guess I can understand your reasons for #4 (did you bother to read #7.39? That's the best ignorance eroder on topic that I've seen in a long time)

#3 is a Duhuhhhh.

#2 is is simply an obdurate restatement of your original thesis that you completely failed to defend, because you duck like those moles at Chucky Cheese.

#1 is mostly a restatement of #3 and earns you a double Duhuhhh, Duhuhhh.

You're fun. :)

operating room errors, i can believe. because of marijuana? HA!! you're killin me over here! get outta here! and i realize there are drug testing all over the place...we all know that. we also know ways around that. ;)

also, sober people are annoying and unreliable too...

I'm reliable.

Enough cat and mouse with "stoners in favor of marijuana law reform."

Good luck with your balls and chains, dudes.

Stop by and have a joint sometime!

<waves>

:D

Joe420er,

"we also know ways around that"

[does a Tim Allen grunt]

Huh?

that was a cat and mouse game?

In the long run, a wasted life is the destiny of a pot smoker.

The slight, measurable cognitive effects of pot, compound over a lifetime.

And that lifetime is yours.

...It's not my problem.

Oh @!$%#! Put it out dudes, he's still here.

<waves a hand at the open window>

Not cool dudes, Not cool at ALL!

what? never heard of detoxifiers? or using other people's urine? or even powdered urine you can order and use to fill the cup with?

lol, and still votes himself up...i'm tellin you, it's a compensation kinda thing...

and if it's not your problem, gulliver, then why make an issue of it at all?

what? never heard of detoxifiers? or using other people's urine? or even powdered urine you can order and use to fill the cup with?

And now you are down to talking about how people can defeat drug tests.

If you are at the stage in your life where you need to figure out how to beat a drug test, that drug owns you.

And children out there..let these losers be a warning to you all.

Don't EVER let a drug own you.

Heard about swapping, not about detoxifiers. It's been years since I worried about it. Last time was in the service, and I took a whole bunch of vitamin C and flushed. LOL

Gulliver,

Persistent little feller aren't ya? :)

Persistent little feller aren't ya? :)

Are you the kind of person who always needs to have the last word?

They're not twinkies, you know.

Gulliver,

Yes I am.

Apparently so are you. ;)

Dammit! I did it again.

<splits a twinkie with Gulliver>

Yo Joe and Flame

You two are a kick in the pants I love the debate your having w/ Gulliver's Island. I wish I could light up and toke a cig size J but I cannot but the next time I do I WILL think of both of you. Joe voted up 7.39 very good links & post. it is to bad that were unreliable (NOT!)

Gulliver's Island

It is a shame that you call people you do not know Unreliable just because they smoke marijuana. I think it is wrong, You should have said those you know are that way, and who is to really say that you are a reliable person.. It has merit if it comes from someone other than yourself.

It kind of reminds me of the people that called all people with long hair hippies, and all hippies use drugs. Marijuana is not something I need, It is something I LIKE. I have turned it down before but only once or twice. My wife does not like it or smoke it, She found online someplace that people that smoke marijuana are 10 (ten) times less likely to get cancer, I did not see where she read that from or i would post it for you. Enjoy your night sir.

It is a shame that you call people you do not know Unreliable just because they smoke marijuana. I think it is wrong,

well..they are always broke, and tardy.

You should have said those you know are that way,

They are!

She found online someplace that people that smoke marijuana are 10 (ten) times less likely to get cancer,

I seem to remember catching a lot of colds back in the day.

Enjoy your night sir.

Ditto.

actually, alot of rich people are potheads too...and plenty of sober people are broke and usually tardy...don't really see ur point...and u catching alot of colds back in the day is just...you. i been smoking it up for 20 years, and the last time i got sick was back in 2005, it was pretty bad and i'm pretty sure it was food poisoning. other than that, i rarely, rarely ever get sick...and the potheads that you know personally do not account for the rest of us...i for one do not watch south park or family guy. i barely watch tv, but you don't want to cross me on a sunday and there's football on tv (go giants, yeah!!)... i don't drink alcohol, and i barely touch coffee. i do not use other drugs, well, actually i just quit smoking cigarettes, goin on 1 and half months now (new personal best!!!!!)...i don't even use prescription drugs...haven't seen a doctor since i was 19 (i'm 34) and that was cuz i broke my leg skating...now, it's true that i'm broke, but that's due to a combination of the economy and the fact that many employers don't really want to hire a deaf person. i'm very rarely late, too. ;)

however, this is all due to my ONE experience with my own life...just like your experience is only ONE out of billions on earth...seems to me that your conclusions are...well, retarded, for lack of a better term. yep. you just cannot say that millions of stoners worldwide are just like you say...oh, and enjoy the smell of bud as you enjoy the night air...you know you're gonna smell it...

however, this is all due to my ONE experience with my own life...just like your experience is only ONE out of billions on earth..

Most people with normal lives don't even know where to buy pot.

awww...

actually, gull, most people know that all you gotta do is walk around the block and you'll find it...

...

Jerry is dignified.

Well you are. :)

You do a good job of running your room...

actually, gull, most people know that all you gotta do is walk around the block and you'll find it...

Unfortunate souls who live on blocks like those.

I'm talking about people with normal lives who don't make a point of networking with the local criminal element.

Yeah, I guess all "street people" need to do is walk outside and they can't avoid drugs any more than a man can avoid raindrops in a thunderstorm. People with normal lives are too busy trying to keep their jobs, pick up their kids from school, and go about their non-drug related activities to be cruising for illegal drugs (which may or may not be laced with something) or keep in touch with that dealer they used to know back in the college dorm.

Gulliver,

You remind me of a very urbane, Mean Gene.

You are resorting to personalizing the argument.

Yo, check it out.

You live in the gated hood, huh?

You gotta a private man watchin' your garden gnome?

Nevermine mister man, your eyes shut tite.

That fair hair boy that smiles so nice.

Has a college plan, a finance scam.

He drop dime bags

In triple benjamin totes,

One day he be da man...

ok, i can see how you think it is...but its normaler than you believe...i've kept in touch with my dealers, and growers, and that's just about the extent of my "cruising for illegal drugs"...lol, i don't live like it's the fast and the furious out here...my oldest is in middle school and my youngest is in elementary, sometimes i gotta take em to school, pick em up, etc. i got a life too, man. getting old, but i'm not irresponsible. never have been, pretty much one of the reasons why i don't really got many friends. (could probably count them on one hand.) hell, i only got like 12 facebook friends, and i don't really like any of em. it's not a matter of making a point of "networking with the local criminal element", it's more like, i grew up with these guys....i've known them for years. alot of them just smoke bud and drink, that's the extent of it. some do drugs, and I don't talk to them. much. i don't live in a bad neighborhood, got a nice big house, two cars, big old fence. houses all around, can't see one building or see any industrial blights against the landscape or anything dramatically ghetto...live in a quiet place, not too many people walk around here. i got a normal life. hell, smoking it up is just normal. and i'm, haha, definitely not street people. you're kinda funny, thinkin you know me already. hell, i got a nice hair cut, i shave, etc. the only thing that's uncommon about me is i'm deaf, and people notice that no matter what. i don't know what else to say, you caught me when i'm really stoned, which is why i'm ramblin...but the only running around i do is when i go to school, and come home to pick up my kid from school, and i'm actually helping my kid on his science project right now, lol, actually you could say i did the whole @!$%#ing thing for him, he had to do a presentation on xenon, a gas. i had no idea what it was before i helped him out and jeez, i could give you quotes on it, like it was discovered in 1898, it's used in specialized light bulbs for intense lights for movie projectors, searchlights, even car HID headlights, etc...anyway, the point is i'm there for my kids. they're happy, safe, and actually my two oldest are honors students. we don't get many visitors, like i said i don't got too many friends. you need to check your perspective of how the world is out there, cuz it's nothing like you're saying so far for me....

In other words, if inmates can get high in prison, sure as hell some of those nice young people singing in the choir toked up before church.

The smartest one has the connection, he will be paying for books and board all the way through college on Mary Jane's dime.

One day he'll run for office... Hell he might have already been president.

If vodka is legal, marijuana should be legal.

The thing is, even after it is legalized, assuming that happens, people will still be dealing with employers who expect them to not be showing up for work with dirty urine. Giving people the right to purchase and use marijuana isn't going to change attitudes with regard to safety sensitive jobs. Bus drivers and airplane plane pilots will still be subject to random testing.

Perhaps they will evolve the drug testing to techniques to screen for the difference between a person who has used marijuana in the past several weeks and a person who is "under the influence" of marijuana -- but I wouldn't hold my breath for that one.

Gulliver,

Hey I said you were a Nice Mean Gene.

The 'nice' cancels the 'mean' So I called you Gene.

sosume

Gulliver,

Seriously, though. I don't know what to tell you regarding sensitive professions and marijuana. It's happening. I'm not convinced by the evidence the purports to prove a performance loss.

The studies were mostly sponsored by the government whose record of honesty on topic is not stellar.

All I have to go on is my own personal experience. I function much better when I'm using than when I'm not. In fact, if I don't use I very rapidly deteriorate and end stuck in a chair.

But I'm a fifty year old disabled guy, not a recreational user.

I just don't see much wrong with letting people use it, even just for fun.

One day he'll run for office... Hell he might have already been president.

The difference between Obama and Clinton, eh? I think Obama is the first president to publicly admit to having inhaled marijuana. What a hoot it would be if someone said that Barry was his dealer back in the day.

and i'm, haha, definitely not street people. you're kinda funny, thinkin you know me already.

I know that I don't know the first thing about you. I wasn't implying that you personally were street people.

There was a time when I knew people who could get pot. I don't live near them any more, they moved on and I moved on too. I'm just not one step removed from anybody who deals in contraband. As far as I can tell, most of the people I know don't have anybody to ask for something like that either. Can't say I feel that there is a gaping hole in my life because I can't find weed. I would think that my priorities were a bit screwed up if I was putting myself at legal risk, and risk at work, because I wanted to get high.

I read a book earlier this year by Sacha Baron-Cohen's cousin, Simon Baron-Cohen. He's a neurologist at the cutting edge of science with regard to sociopaths. In one of his discussions about the brain circuits that are involved with empathy, he was talking about something in the brain called cannaboid receptors. They took their name from cannabis, because they are the receptors that respond to pot. Anyway, long story short, not everybody has the same kind. Some people have cannaboid receptors that are far more sensitive than others.

Just like not everyone who touches alcohol is destined to become an alcoholic, people have different predestinations with regard to cannabis.

Of course, your priorities would be screwed up if you were risking everything to smoke pot. But the thing is that the reason the risk is there is because the stuff is illegal.

If it were treated like cigarettes or alcohol it would be a non issue in most cases.

Even in a legalized society you'd have to think some controls would be necessary.

Gulliver,

I wonder why there'd be a cannibis receptor in the brain? Why that particular chemical I mean?

Many people choose to ignore the legal risk because they see the law as morally flawed. And in truth, the law no longer has teeth. So many are at the user level that it overwhelms the judicial system to punish with more than a citation. Many within the enforcement community also see the moral quandary of unjust punishment for a victimless crime, as well.

As far as use within the professions, testing does have a deterrent effect on use in commercial aviation. Users will only indulge when they have enough time free to have the pot be flushed from their system, and in the new world of commercial pilot, there are no 30 day breaks in duty. And, by and large, that group is fairly conservative. You will find retired pilots and flight attendants, though, that freely engage.

Procuring? Gulliver, in many circles, the source is no longer the street. A fair number of people grow their own, and there is nationwide distribution, quite often with door service. Paranoia is no longer as rampant.

Gulliver, I can only tell you what others might see in your words, and that is a high disdain for pot smokers. If that's the way you feel, okay, but it carries no weight when arguing for or against legalization, or pots detriments vis-a-vis other legal drugs in our culture.

Can't say I feel that there is a gaping hole in my life because I can't find weed.

Is there anything in your life that would cause a gaping hole if removed? Caffeine, sugar, alcohol, chocolate, sex? Everyone has some sort of crutch, not the least of which is some form of evangelizing, either pro or con their favorite subject. Pot can be as benign or as malignant in a person's life as they want or need it to be, but it is not a physical addiction in and of itself.

I wonder why there'd be a cannibis receptor in the brain? Why that particular chemical I mean?

Chicken or the egg. Pot is enjoyable because it triggers the receptor. The receptor exists because the human body uses endocannabinoids as signal agents, and some ligands, or binding molecules that trigger the cannabis receptor, serve as signal agents as well. Those chemicals are some of the many common ones we share with plants. Furthermore, many plants will undergo evolutionary drift to enhance their appeal to animals, so as to facilitate reproduction. If it weren't for pot's cannabinoids, it would just be another agricultural plant.

risk? what risk? cops don't care if i have weed...been caught in my home state, got a ticket (where it's been decriminalized since the '70's), and where i'm living right now, it's a low priority offense. got caught with bud, and the cop went "whoopsy daisy, there's no evidence" and ground the @!$%# under his boot all over the pavement and let me go. there's barely any risk with smoking bud...unless you're caught with an insane amount of bud, i guess.

also, all animals have cannabinoid receptors...here's a great link on the subject:

http://www.jaoa.org/content/108/10/586.full

skydog,

Or maybe the human animal has unconciously selected within the species for it's ability to use cannaboids most effectively. :)

It's the range of human effect thing, that Gulliver quoted from Baron-Cohen, that made wonder.

I don't know enough biology. LOL

cops only give you a ticket for crappy weed, if it's good, they just take it, and suggest you leave it at home, unless you have more than an ounce.. or have a transport permit as caregiver..

interesting that the brain has specific receptors for cannibinoids.... ends the myth that pot kills brain cells...

One of the best and worse reasons for pot to remain illegal is so that poor people will have a way of having an income and revenge when they sell drugs to the 1%'s children.

It is a kind of justice I guess

ohhhh....what a nasty revenge....yeah, that's really cruel alright...hell, they don't deserve no bud, dammit! >.<

the kids of the 1% raid mom and dads medicine cabinet for oxycotin, valium, etc and other true gateway drugs..

I just realized the flaw in my thinking about marijuana.

What I have done for years is fail to take into account that not everybody responds the same way to marijuana. There are differences in brain chemistry and brain structure between people that causes them to react differently to the drug. It can actually induce psychotic states in some people, for example. This doesn't mean that it affects all people along these lines.

Marijuana is actually similar to alcohol in this regard. Not everyone who has a drink now and then winds up an alcoholic. But the outliers in their responses to both drugs give society cause to be concerned about both of these drugs. The outliers also raise concern that the drugs aren't doing the rest of us that much good either.

Now, there are advocates for marijuana that seem to be willing to deny that marijuana has negative effects under any circumstances. They deny that smoking marijuana elevates one's risk for emphysema and they see nothing wrong with your surgeon opening up your chest after smoking a joint or two. I think we have established that I'm not in that camp.

The thing is, we end up having to regulate these substances because of the effects they have on outliers. Not everyone is a drunk, but the sale of alcohol is regulated and prohibited from being sold to minors. Drunk driving is a crime and operating on someone while drunk could probably get you thrown in jail. Bars aren't supposed to serve alcohol to someone who is visibly drunk, either.

The point about marijuana is ultimately not going to be about how many people swear up and down that they can fly a plane with no problem after smoking a joint. The point is going to be that marijuana will be regulated to reduce the risk that the outliers present to the rest of us and to themselves. Don't expect the TSA to be lightening up its policing of THC anytime soon, even if marijuana is legalized. Don't expect candy stores to be selling marijuana to children under 18 years of age.

I do think it should be legalized, but not without being smart about it.

Seems pretty reasonable to me.

There's a few things I could take issue with, but really I'd be willing to support this kind of compromise if it meant people could use without being exposed punitive legal risks.

that is very reasonable, and the approach California has taken, our local city even has prepared the needed zoning laws and have them ready to go, in order to regulate where dispensarys can go, ie.. similar to bars, not near schools or parks/playground etc.. and I agree with that,

also, CALIF law also covers DUI.. as being under the influence of ANYTHING that impairs your driving, alcohol, pot, precription meds, fatigue, cellphone, etc, so if drinking a glass of water impairs your driving, they could arrest you for DUI of water. so I have no objections to further detail for pot,

I think your worse fear, is the driver that says " I'm ok to drive while text messaging"